Conversation with "Star Wars: Visions" Directors of "Tatooine Rhapsody" and "Lop & Ochō"
日本語という言語の世界への入り口の一つはアニメだった。カウボーイビバップやるろうに剣心を初め、字幕版を見ながら新たに覚えた日本語を必死に聞き取れようとした。その語学的な目標を目指すと同時に、アニメの世界観と豊な表現力も当然堪能した。アニメのお蔭で拙僧の語学の旅に大きな一歩を踏み出せただけではなく、審美と美学に対する価値観がより豊かにもなった。
One of the avenues I used to venture into the world of the Japanese language was anime. I started with the likes of Cowboy Bebop and Rurouni Kenshin, watching the subtitled versions and trying really hard to pick out the new Japanese words I had learned. In addition to this academically driven goal, naturally I also enjoyed the vast expressive potential unique to anime. The medium not only helped me take my first major steps forward on my journey through the Japanese language, but also broadened my own artistic and aesthetic sentiments.
「スターウォーズのアニメ企画があるらしい」という噂を初めて聞いたときに感じたわくわく感は今も鮮明に覚えている。フォースに織り込まれている日本の宗教観を初め日本の文化がジョージ・ルカース氏が生み出したあの遥か彼方の銀河系に与えた影響が非常に大きかった。それを考えるとアニメを通してスターウォーズをその源(ソース)に戻すのは正しいと思った。「スターウォーズ:ビジョンズ」に関わった日本のアニメスタジオのクリエーター陣はスターウォーズから影響を受けながら、自分が想像するスターウォーズを日本の独特な媒体で新たな表現(ビジョン)を見せてくれた。その意味で、「スターウォーズ:ビジョンズ」で日本文化とスターウォーズの縁の輪が完成された。
I vividly remember the excitement I felt when I first caught wind of the rumors about a Star Wars anime project. The galaxy far, far, away conceived by George Lucas was heavily influenced by Japanese culture, such as the Japanese religious worldviews evident in the concept of the Force. In that respect, it felt right to see anime used as a vehicle for bringing Star Wars back to its source. The Japanese creators involved with Star Wars: Visions were all influenced by the saga, and using the unique Japanese medium of anime they showed us a new “vision” of Star Wars rooted in their own imaginations. In that respect, Star Wars: Visions completed that ring connecting the saga and Japanese culture.
Source: disneyplus.jp
下記の対談では、「スターウォーズ:ビジョンズ」の「タトゥイーン・ラプソディ」と「のらうさロップと緋桜お蝶」の監督の二人が自分の作品を始め、スターウォーズに対する思いを楽しく語り合う様子を窺える。元の対談記事はこのサイトから閲覧できるけど、その日本語をベースに英訳を作ってみた。今回の「スターウォーズ:ビジョンズ」は一度限りの企画で済まず、継続的に作っていく価値はあると拙僧が思う。
The following conversation brings together the directors of Tatooine Rhapsody and Lop & Ochō. They have a lot of fun discussing their own contributions to Star Wars: Visions as well as their own thoughts on the Star Wars saga. The original Japanese article can be found at this site, with my English translation below based on that article. I really hope that Star Wars: Vision is more than a one-off project. There is true value in continuing to make these shorts.
--(Interviewer) How about you guys start us off by introducing yourselves.
Igarashi: I’m Yuki Igarashi, the director behind Lop & Ochō.
Kimura: And I’m Taku Kimura, the director of Tatooine Rhapsody.
*Translation note: The word “Ochō” in Japanese means “butterfly”, and in the Japanese title it is preceded by the word “Hizakura”, which in English translates to “winter cherry blossom”. When you watch the short, you see visual elements sprinkled throughout that allude to the imagery painted by the title. The “hi” part in “hizakura” is written in Kanji as 緋, which means “scarlet” or “crimson”.
--So what did you think of each other’s work in Star Wars: Visions?
Igarashi: Tatooine Rhapsody was an absolute blast. It had that brimming sense of optimism you get when you watch Episode 4. At the same time, I felt it really pushed the envelope, for it’s the only real short out of the bunch that doesn’t throw in any of those chanbara (“sword frenzy”) elements. The slightly deformed aesthetic of the characters put through that kawaii (cute) Japanese filter was both fresh and equally ambitious.
Source: Wookiepedia
Kimura: Wow, that’s some high praise! I’m thrilled to hear that’s what you felt.
--Taku, what did you think of Lop & Ochō?
Kimura: I thought it was stunning. Simply wonderful. The visual aesthetic in the shots and art was top notch, right on par with what you’d see in a full-length film. That really impressed me. I also loved how you took that idea of “blood ties” that is so central to Star Wars but then explored how you don’t need to be blood relations to be family. I feel that message holds a lot of weight.
Igarashi: We really tried to create that feel of anime made in the 1980s and 1990s. The creators making anime at that time were influenced by Star Wars, so we looked at different ways of recreating that feel.
Kimura: Did you have a lot of younger people on your team?
Igarashi: Yeah, we had quite a few people that were on the younger end of the spectrum. There were also members on our team a decade or so older than me, such as artist Masaji Kaneko and mecha designer Shigeki Izumo. They’re of the generation that grew up on Star Wars, and dreamed about one day doing work which involved that galaxy far, far, away. However, it seems most of the creators working on Tatooine Rhapsody were on the younger side.
Kimura: Most of the team was pretty young. In fact, there were more than a few who knew little about Star Wars. That made it a bit tough for me, as I had to give them a crash course on the Star Wars world before we got to work. The galaxy has its own feel, so even the characters lurking in the background need to fit that vibe. This limits the scope of design in those characters as well.
Igarashi: One of the goals of these Star Wars: Visions shorts is to bring new fans to that galaxy far, far, away. I feel like many of the younger people in Japan today, in particular the female audience, have not really seen Star Wars. It’d be great if the work our young teams of SW newbies put in on Lop & Ochō and Tatooine Rhapsody get them to think, “hey, this galaxy looks like fun” (chuckles).
The Visions shorts made by the other directors had that veteran feel behind them. I think people that saw Episodes 4-6 when they came out probably have a bit of a different take and perspective on the saga. I almost feel like we owe them an apology of sorts, because we didn’t see the original saga in real time.
Kimura: Haha, that would’ve been amazing to see the films when they first came out. What was the first SW film you saw in the theater?
Igarashi: My family really wasn’t the theater-going type, so the first one that I saw at the box office was actually Episode 7. Before that, I watched all the original films and prequels when they were broadcast on TV. My face was glued to the television whenever I watched Star Wars. How about you? What was your first Star Wars theater experience?
Kimura: My first was Episode 3, but if my memory’s right it was only just barely. I was just a kid at that time, so I couldn’t set off to the theater when I felt like it.
Igarashi: I hear you. My theater experiences came after I was able to make my own money. I went to see The Force Awakens on opening day at the Toho cinema in Shinjuku. By that time I was also working in this industry as well.
Kimura: You mean the 6:30 p.m. showing!? *Translation note: First showings of TFA in Japan were on Friday opening weekend at 6:30 pm
Source: cinematoday.jp
Igarashi: No (laughs), I went to the showing right after that. But I did get to take in all the people dressed up like Jedi with their lightsabers for that first showing when I got to the theater. The start of the sequel trilogy (Episodes 7-9) was really special, for you could feel that energy and love for Star Wars. Those days were great.
Kimura: That’s awesome. I’d love to see something that brought back that festive atmosphere again. I saw The Last Jedi in Tokyo, but for The Force Awakens I went to a local theater in Shiga. There was nobody with lightsabers at that theater, which left me thinking “man, there are no Jedi in Shiga (laughs).”
*Translation note: Shiga is a prefecture in central Japan which is next to Kyoto. It is a fairly rural prefecture famous for the beautiful Lake Biwa
Source: The Nippon Foundation
--What did you think when you were approached about the Star Wars: Visions project?
Igarashi: Honestly, I thought “is this a scam or something” when I first learned about it. About three days after the parts of the anime Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken I did were aired on TV a person at Twin Engine sent me a mail asking if I’d like to get involved in contest to make a Star Wars anime. Seeing a Gmail address made me think something was up (laughs). I’ve heard a similar thing happened to Dave Filoni, the director of The Clone Wars series. He thought someone was joking with him when he first received the call about that project.
Kimura: I’ve heard that story, too (chuckles).
Igarashi: The scope of the pitch they made for Visions intrigued me. I mean, they basically told us to make a new style of Star Wars, encouraging us to bring our own originality to it and feel free to go beyond the bounds of what already exists. In trying to figure out how far to go with refashioning that galaxy far, far, away, I started thinking about that core essence of Star Wars. I was thoroughly engrossed in The Mandalorian around that time, and that gave me a nice angle in how to approach Visions. Just like that show does, I aimed to create something that the general audience would love, but throw in some Easter eggs that the hard core fans would enjoy. In doing that, I strove to make something that new fans would appreciate.
Source: starwars.com
Kimura: When I first learned about Visions, I didn’t really consider myself as the person that would be involved. I thought that someone else would end up doing it. However, when we got the green light for our story, I began wondering if I was really up to the task (chuckles). Even when work on our short got underway, it never really sank in that I was doing Star Wars. As you said, they pretty much gave us carte blanche to do what we want. I expected most of the other shorts to go with something that put Japanese culture front and center, paying homage to that Kurosawa influence, or throw in a lightsaber. With this in mind, I tried to go a completely different route, and this led me to do something with music.
Igarashi: Did you have any personal reason for trying to do something with music, specifically rock?
Kimura: Rock has this rebellious streak to it, so I looked to tap into that and portray a band of four that were standing up to the establishment. One thing in Star Wars I really like is how Episode 4 and the Rebels series focus on that team collective. I also felt that if they have jazz music in Star Wars, there is bound to be other styles of music in that galaxy far, far away as well. My decision to go with rock reflected that desire to broaden the musical horizons of Star Wars.
Igarashi: So you didn’t go with that idea because you do music yourself?
Kimura: Haha, sorry to disappoint, but I’m not a musician. I do love listening to it though.
Igarashi: The stillness of the crowd in that first scene of the band playing live really reminded of clubs in Koenji, so I thought you might have firsthand experience with something like that (chuckles).
*Translation note: Koenji here refers to the area around the station of the same name. It’s on the Chuo Line, a train line that runs east-west through Tokyo, and only a couple of stops from Shinjuku. It has a lot of unique bars and music clubs.
Source: Urban Life Metro
Kimura: Actually that scene was based on my own experience of going to see my college friend’s band in concert.
Igarashi: One thing that struck me about the concert scenes was that droid spinning round and round and not actually playing anything.
Kimura: That droid was modeled off of a speaker. You guys had a droid in Lop & Ochō as well. I feel that droids are staple of Star Wars, given how they show up in most of the other Visions shorts.
Igarashi: Throwing in some droids does give it that Star Wars feel. There is a soft and fuzzy evenness to them.
Kimura: Droids really help to lighten the mood in those heavier scenes. I think we made the right decision in adding some droids. Hopefully they can make some merch out of them. I’d buy it.
Igarashi: That was one of my goals with our Visions short (laughs). I’ve always felt that there’s no separating the toys from Star Wars, and vice versa. I’m still waiting for them to make some Visions merch or toys (laughs). The whole Visions project has this omnibus feel to it, and with each studio trying to portray what they think is the best aspect of Star Wars, I think that together we have created something that is readily accessible to new fans. Actually, I was quite surprised to see how much variety there was in the Visions shorts. I found myself applauding the work of others and thinking to myself, “that’s something I wanted to do (chuckles).”
Kimura: I don’t have any regrets with my work on Visions because that was what I choose to do. In saying that though, the once-in-life time nature of this project does have me wishing a bit that I had thrown in some lightsaber action (laughs).
Igarashi: Yeah, I also wanted to take our story to outer space. In starting Lop & Ochō out in space, it would have kind of overlapped with some of the other shorts.
Kimura: Putting in a famous line like “I’ve got a bad feeling about this” did that too.
Igarashi: Overlapping in a bunch of different areas ended up working out, I feel, for it helped convey and boil down the essential elements of Star Wars for new fans.
--Speaking of overlap, Yoshihiko Dewa did the music for each of your shorts. What did you have in mind when approaching him to handle the score?
Igarashi: I’ll let you go first, Taku, since there are a lot of music elements in the Visions short you did.
Kimura: Sure thing (laughs). I admit that I didn’t feel right about taking an existing SW track and doing something rock with it. I mean, the music is a big part of what makes Star Wars, Star Wars. Given the challenging nature of what we were asked to do with Visions, I opted to go for it with a gutsy rock track. Still, I wasn’t completely comfortable with that. The frustrating part was that we had to tell Mr. Dewa what we wanted before the animation was complete, which meant that all the instructions and input from our side ended up being a little abstract.
Source: Starwars.com
--The general consensus on social media is that voice actor Hiroyuki Yoshino knocked it out of the park with his music vocals.
Kimura: Actually, I have a little confession and apology I need to make. We recorded the vocals for the song first, and it was sung by somebody else. It wasn’t until later that we went with Mr. Yoshino, but you really can’t tell the difference because the performances sound so much alike. Hopefully fans can appreciate this bit of trivia (laughs).
Igarashi: Whoa, I would have never noticed! So what kind of song and vocals did you ask Mr. Dewa to make for you?
Kimura: The band I had in mind was Kuro Neko Chelsea (Black Cat Chelsea). I like that husky quality of the lead singer’s voice, so that’s the style of song I asked Mr. Dewa to make. Basically something that didn’t sound too pretty. The music in Tatooine Rhapsody stuck with that rock vibe throughout the entire short, but when I heard the music for Lop & Ochō, I was blown away by the incredible breadth of the music that Mr. Dewa created for you. It really felt like Star Wars.
Igarashi: With Lop & Ochō, I wanted to vary the tracks between Western orchestral music and pieces performed on traditional Japanese instruments. That’s what led me to turn to Mr. Dewa, as I felt he was really the only person who was up to the challenge of tackling such a wide variety of musical genres. That gut feeling proved to be on the mark when I heard the demo he made for us, for the music had that Star Wars feel.
We tried to go with a film score-style for the overall tone of the music. This is different from the general approach to music for anime, and posed its own unique challenges, such as trying to match the pacing of the music with what was unfolding on screen. That said, tackling this bit was also fun. We went with an orchestral style piece for the opening scene with the Imperial Star Destroyer descending on the planet. For our main protagonists, we used Japanese style pieces featuring Japanese and other Eastern musical instruments. Towards the end, we decided to blend these two styles. Recently I’ve been playing Ghost of Tsushima, and the score for that game features a blend of Japanese instruments and Western orchestra. That was a point of reference I gave to Mr. Dewa in making the music for Lop & Ochō (laughs).
Source: In game shot of Ghost of Tsushima by author
--Was there anything you found to be difficult in creating these Visions shorts?
Kimura: The toughest thing for me was that this was my directorial debut. But I tried to put up a steady front, as I felt it would be me as the director to look indecisive or weak in front of the team I was leading. The members of our team were really fantastic, so other than this being my first time in the director’s chair, I really didn’t have much difficulty. Everything in production went smoothly. Disney and Lucasfilm also were pretty receptive, and vetoed very little of what we proposed. I was worried they wouldn’t let us put in the big names like Jabba the Hutt and Boba Fett, but they loved those ideas and gave us the green light (chuckles).
Source: starwars.com
Igarashi: We had our basic concept in place early on, but the question then was how far we’d go with bringing out those Star Wars elements. We changed our mind a couple of times there. Our initial plan was to going with something pretty ambitious, but in doing that we feared it would lose that Star Wars feel (laughs). That led us to change course, and eventually settle on that hybrid approach. Our aim was to create something that new fans would enjoy, while also delivering something that would stand up to the demands of hard core Star Wars fans.
Speaking of hard core, Shigeki Izumo, who did all the vehicle and mecha designs for Lop & Ochō, is a massive Star Wars fan who really knows his stuff. I mean, this guy ran a Star Wars site for fans in Japan. He recommended that I read Joseph Campbell’s book, and so I did (laughs). The notes that he showed me were pretty interesting, and included things like the stuff that was conveyed to the studios in the States. Another passionate Star Wars fan on our team was Kaneko, who handled the art for our short. Having these hard core fans on board and ready access to their knowledge was a huge help as we fleshed out the details for Lop & Ochō.
Kimura: I wasn’t as lucky, for most of the people around me didn’t know all that much about Star Wars. That meant I ended up having to do the lion’s share of the research (laughs). I mean, I love Star Wars, but I don’t know everything about that galaxy far, far, away (chuckles).
Igarashi: Today there are literally loads of books you can get your hands on, making it overwhelming to read up on all the details of that galaxy. Searching out the old book stores is also a tough task. It’s pretty hard to get up to speed on Star Wars if you were unable to witness all of it in real time.
Kimura: They keep coming out with all kinds of new merch, too (laughs).
Igarashi: You pretty much have to narrow your focus to a few areas, otherwise you’ll fall into a bottomless pit. I’ve got into the little carded figures for The Mandalorian.
Kimura: I’m a big fan of The Mandalorian, too.
Igarashi: It’s such a great series. Season 2 had a kind of MCU feel to it with all the different characters (from other parts of the saga) assembling. I actually worried they’d steal the show (laughs). Indeed, the characters we meet in The Mandalorian are all so good. That series was always in the back of my mind as we worked on Lop & Ochō.
Kimura: Seems like the family sword (that Lop receives) was inspired by the Dark Saber (laughs).
Source: Sci-fi and Fantasy Network
Igarashi: The Mandalorian is simply awesome. I’d love for them to do a full-length film. All this talk of what we love about Star Wars could keep us hear for ages. We should geek out on Star Wars over some drinks some time (laughs).
--In winding this talk down, is there anything particular thing you’d like to ask your fellow director here?
Kimura: The fruit in the market scene in Lop & Ochō really reminded me of the Meiloorun melons in Rebels. Was that the same fruit (laughs)?
Igarashi: That fruit in Rebels was definitely a point of reference, but it wasn’t what we were specifically looking to recreate.
Source: starwars.com
Kimura: Sorry for being blunt here, but I have to ask: Do you have the next part of this story drawn up?
Igarashi: Yes! We want to take the story to outer space in the next part. Lop sets out after the Imperials to find Ochō, who has fallen into darkness. Along the way I have her meeting up with the Rebellion and having strange encounters of her own (laughs). I’d also like to do a story about Lop’s species.
Kimura: Going after the comrade that has gone over to the darkness is kind of the opposite we see with Tam in Resistance and Crosshair in The Bad Batch. That sounds fascinating.
Igarashi: Ultimately I’d like to see the story come to a happy ending, with Lop finally catching up with Ochō and the two working out their differences. Do you have a sequel to Tatooine Rhapsody in mind?
Kimura: Give me a shout and we’ll throw on a live performance right away. The title might change each time though, like “Endor Rhapsody” or “Coruscant Rhapsody” (laughs). It’d be fun to do an “Imperial Rhapsody”, too.
Igarashi: An “Imperial Rhapsody” would definitely be intense. I can imagine those lightsabers being used as glowsticks (laughs).
Kimura: Thanks for the idea (laughs).
Igarashi: That’d probably drive a lot of people nuts (laughs).
Kimura: I think we should be allowed to get away with that on this short (laughs).
Igarashi: I was meaning to ask, but is the Hutt guitarist in Tatooine Rhapsody related to Jabba? Did he do something bad that would have Jabba send a bounty hunter after him?
Kimura: The backstory has him as Jabba’s nephew. Basically he has some kind of debt to Jabba.
Igarashi: Perhaps he borrowed some money from Jabba to start up the band?
Source: starwars.com
Kimura: Haha, we didn’t really have all the details of that back story fleshed out.
--Now that you both have your directorial debuts under your belts, do you have any concept or something you want to do for your next creation?
Kimura: I want to do something fun, perhaps something that is more in the entertainment vein. I’d like to move beyond the conventional Japanese anime style and explore a bunch of other artistic styles.
Igarashi: The entertainment angle is also something I had in mind. One thing I really like is the depiction of characters. There is the massive character culture within Japanese anime in manga. It feels like the characters are the ones who really pull the audience in, more so than the story. This is actually something we aimed to do with Lop & Ochō, putting the characters front and center. While I want to craft the edgy images that I enjoy, I also want to compose something entertaining that is really character driven.
Source: Animetimes.jp
--We’re definitely looking forward to what you guys have in store with your next creations! Thanks for taking the time for this chat session!